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	<title>Comments on: Free for All Permission Sharing</title>
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	<link>http://benatlas.com/2009/07/free-for-all-permission-sharing/</link>
	<description>the curatorship of possibilities - ben&#039;s blog about urban ethos and connectedness</description>
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		<title>By: Ben Atlas</title>
		<link>http://benatlas.com/2009/07/free-for-all-permission-sharing/#comment-3009</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Atlas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jul 2009 12:27:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://benatlas.com/?p=3127#comment-3009</guid>
		<description>Dan, your ideas about storytelling are interesting but I was thinking more about conversations way to refine ideas and culture. Rather than a conversation between an author and an audience. I was thinking horizontally.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;To your second point. Absolutely you need to give and graciously receive samples.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dan, your ideas about storytelling are interesting but I was thinking more about conversations way to refine ideas and culture. Rather than a conversation between an author and an audience. I was thinking horizontally.</p>
<p>To your second point. Absolutely you need to give and graciously receive samples.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Holloway</title>
		<link>http://benatlas.com/2009/07/free-for-all-permission-sharing/#comment-3008</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Holloway</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 14:47:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://benatlas.com/?p=3127#comment-3008</guid>
		<description>Hi Ben, thank you so much for getting back to me. Apologies that you caught me in one of my more abrasive moods before - I can only put it down to too much or too little caffeine :-) I agree there isn&#039;t a culture of conversation, but I believe that this is what art should be - I&#039;ve written in a couple fo places about returning to the old models of oral storytelling, where the teller has a distinctive voice but moulds the story to the particular audience, always sympathetic to their concerns - and how the internet offers unique insighst into the way tales like Beowulf and The Odyssey were composed.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I absolutely agree on the expectation that content is not worthless. I know some people think making work available for free degrades its intrinsic value (or the estimation thereof) but that misses the mark. In the music world, the biggest free file-sharers are also the biggest purchasers, and the intrinsic monetary value of content is clearly related to the subjetive aesthetic value individuals place on it. I think that&#039;s transferable to written content. In other words, just because I give something away, deosn&#039;t mean someone wouldn&#039;t be prepared to pay for it (or an almost identical work by someone else) if it had a price tag, provided they love it. Likewise, if I give someone one book for free and they think it&#039;s rubbish, they won&#039;t come back for my next one even if it&#039;s also free.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Ben, thank you so much for getting back to me. Apologies that you caught me in one of my more abrasive moods before &#8211; I can only put it down to too much or too little caffeine :-) I agree there isn&#39;t a culture of conversation, but I believe that this is what art should be &#8211; I&#39;ve written in a couple fo places about returning to the old models of oral storytelling, where the teller has a distinctive voice but moulds the story to the particular audience, always sympathetic to their concerns &#8211; and how the internet offers unique insighst into the way tales like Beowulf and The Odyssey were composed.</p>
<p>I absolutely agree on the expectation that content is not worthless. I know some people think making work available for free degrades its intrinsic value (or the estimation thereof) but that misses the mark. In the music world, the biggest free file-sharers are also the biggest purchasers, and the intrinsic monetary value of content is clearly related to the subjetive aesthetic value individuals place on it. I think that&#39;s transferable to written content. In other words, just because I give something away, deosn&#39;t mean someone wouldn&#39;t be prepared to pay for it (or an almost identical work by someone else) if it had a price tag, provided they love it. Likewise, if I give someone one book for free and they think it&#39;s rubbish, they won&#39;t come back for my next one even if it&#39;s also free.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben Atlas</title>
		<link>http://benatlas.com/2009/07/free-for-all-permission-sharing/#comment-3007</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Atlas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 12:45:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://benatlas.com/?p=3127#comment-3007</guid>
		<description>Dan, thank you for your comment. Sorry for responding so late I was traveling. Thank you for sharing your quest to be a writer. I am sure you will succeed. Incidentally I don&#039;t think there is a culture of a &quot;conversation between artist and audience&quot;. Anything that pretends to be culture is a conversation first. I believe in this strongly, it is all about having live exchange to polish your ideas that you then can explore in writing.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;For sure you to have the right to free publish but you should also be allowed to get paid. There needs to be a mechanism and the expectation that content is not worthless. I am not advocating the collective agreements. I am advocating the built in ability to charge for the content.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I will check out the web site...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dan, thank you for your comment. Sorry for responding so late I was traveling. Thank you for sharing your quest to be a writer. I am sure you will succeed. Incidentally I don&#39;t think there is a culture of a &#8220;conversation between artist and audience&#8221;. Anything that pretends to be culture is a conversation first. I believe in this strongly, it is all about having live exchange to polish your ideas that you then can explore in writing.</p>
<p>For sure you to have the right to free publish but you should also be allowed to get paid. There needs to be a mechanism and the expectation that content is not worthless. I am not advocating the collective agreements. I am advocating the built in ability to charge for the content.</p>
<p>I will check out the web site&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Holloway</title>
		<link>http://benatlas.com/2009/07/free-for-all-permission-sharing/#comment-3006</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Holloway</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 07:56:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://benatlas.com/?p=3127#comment-3006</guid>
		<description>Hi Ben. I came over here from Glen&#039;s page, so apologies for my lateness to the debate here. A couple of points:&lt;br&gt;&quot;Why don’t you need my explicit permission to use my content?&quot; Well, technically you do, surely? That might not be how people act, though.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I&#039;m a content producer. Unlike Glen, I&#039;m nervous about the Fair Syndication Consortium&#039;s proposal. It&#039;s too close to the Performing Rights Society&#039;s balls-up of YouTube that means there&#039;s a whole load of musicians who can&#039;t get their videos out to me in the UK. I would like to be able to post my work for free if I want to and reserve the right not to share in the ad revenue of the places I post it. Culture-based industries have a habit of defending protectionist practices in the name of defending content producers, when actually they defend the industry not the individual. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;A couple of small points. 1. I&#039;m broke. I scrape by in a day job. I&#039;m not a rich erson writing as a hobby trying to drive hardworking writers out of business. 2. I do want to make a living from my writing. BUT 3. I would like to have the right to try and do that by using the business model of my choosing, and I choose to give my content away for free. I will always give it away for free in electronic form. I believe my novels are good enough and have enough appeal that readers will be prepared, down the line, to pay for my books. As someone who believes cultre is a conversation between artist and audience, I can only see supply side protectionism as a form of cultural murder (not morally, logically). If my writing isn&#039;t good enough to attract paying bookbuyers, or my business model&#039;s too misjudged and people don&#039;t buy, no one has anything to fear from me. If my writing or my business model IS good enough then why shouldn&#039;t I take a slice of the industry&#039;s pie.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I guess my point is - collective agreements and fair treatment for producers sound great (hey, it&#039;s like Fair trade for coffee growers, we already have the preconception it must be A.Good.Thing). But the problem with collective agreements is they draw circles, they impose boundaries, they categorise. The wonderful thing about the internet is it attacks categories and boundaries, and finds ways to disrupt cartels. Long may that continue.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Please note, I am a member of the Year Zero Writers collective (&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.yearzerowriters.wordpress.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.yearzerowriters.wordpress.com&lt;/a&gt;) but the opinions stated here are mine and do not necessarily reflect those of my fellow Zeros :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Ben. I came over here from Glen&#39;s page, so apologies for my lateness to the debate here. A couple of points:<br />&#8220;Why don’t you need my explicit permission to use my content?&#8221; Well, technically you do, surely? That might not be how people act, though.</p>
<p>I&#39;m a content producer. Unlike Glen, I&#39;m nervous about the Fair Syndication Consortium&#39;s proposal. It&#39;s too close to the Performing Rights Society&#39;s balls-up of YouTube that means there&#39;s a whole load of musicians who can&#39;t get their videos out to me in the UK. I would like to be able to post my work for free if I want to and reserve the right not to share in the ad revenue of the places I post it. Culture-based industries have a habit of defending protectionist practices in the name of defending content producers, when actually they defend the industry not the individual. </p>
<p>A couple of small points. 1. I&#39;m broke. I scrape by in a day job. I&#39;m not a rich erson writing as a hobby trying to drive hardworking writers out of business. 2. I do want to make a living from my writing. BUT 3. I would like to have the right to try and do that by using the business model of my choosing, and I choose to give my content away for free. I will always give it away for free in electronic form. I believe my novels are good enough and have enough appeal that readers will be prepared, down the line, to pay for my books. As someone who believes cultre is a conversation between artist and audience, I can only see supply side protectionism as a form of cultural murder (not morally, logically). If my writing isn&#39;t good enough to attract paying bookbuyers, or my business model&#39;s too misjudged and people don&#39;t buy, no one has anything to fear from me. If my writing or my business model IS good enough then why shouldn&#39;t I take a slice of the industry&#39;s pie.</p>
<p>I guess my point is &#8211; collective agreements and fair treatment for producers sound great (hey, it&#39;s like Fair trade for coffee growers, we already have the preconception it must be A.Good.Thing). But the problem with collective agreements is they draw circles, they impose boundaries, they categorise. The wonderful thing about the internet is it attacks categories and boundaries, and finds ways to disrupt cartels. Long may that continue.</p>
<p>Please note, I am a member of the Year Zero Writers collective (<a href="http://www.yearzerowriters.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.yearzerowriters.wordpress.com</a>) but the opinions stated here are mine and do not necessarily reflect those of my fellow Zeros :-)</p>
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		<title>By: Ben Atlas</title>
		<link>http://benatlas.com/2009/07/free-for-all-permission-sharing/#comment-2999</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Atlas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jul 2009 13:23:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://benatlas.com/?p=3127#comment-2999</guid>
		<description>I believe the charging is inevitbale. Note this press release:&lt;br&gt;ASCAP Seeks Royalties on Embedded YouTube Music Videos&lt;br&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.dmwmedia.com/news/2009/07/09/ascap-seeks-royalties-embedded-youtube-music-videos&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.dmwmedia.com/news/2009/07/09/ascap-s...&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe the charging is inevitbale. Note this press release:<br />ASCAP Seeks Royalties on Embedded YouTube Music Videos<br /><a href="http://www.dmwmedia.com/news/2009/07/09/ascap-seeks-royalties-embedded-youtube-music-videos" rel="nofollow"></a><a href="http://www.dmwmedia.com/news/2009/07/09/ascap-s.." rel="nofollow">http://www.dmwmedia.com/news/2009/07/09/ascap-s..</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben Atlas</title>
		<link>http://benatlas.com/2009/07/free-for-all-permission-sharing/#comment-3003</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Atlas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Jul 2009 20:42:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://benatlas.com/?p=3127#comment-3003</guid>
		<description>Not a moment too soon for the freemium discussion, Bloomberg reports that NYT is considering a $5 monthly charge &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&amp;sid=a8GofbbtFf8w&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarch...&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt;The interesting part of that report is that they would charge for the NYT on mobile devises first. My thoughts are that Apps paved the way for the mobile model. Have the internet occurred in general in the same time fram, we would have been paying for it too. A matter of time IMHO but the move by the NYT would embolden people to start charging.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Also interesting that Google today decided to display copyright license next to the images.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not a moment too soon for the freemium discussion, Bloomberg reports that NYT is considering a $5 monthly charge <a href="http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&#038;sid=a8GofbbtFf8w" rel="nofollow"></a><a href="http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarch.." rel="nofollow">http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarch..</a>.<br />The interesting part of that report is that they would charge for the NYT on mobile devises first. My thoughts are that Apps paved the way for the mobile model. Have the internet occurred in general in the same time fram, we would have been paying for it too. A matter of time IMHO but the move by the NYT would embolden people to start charging.</p>
<p>Also interesting that Google today decided to display copyright license next to the images.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben Atlas</title>
		<link>http://benatlas.com/2009/07/free-for-all-permission-sharing/#comment-3005</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Atlas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 15:59:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://benatlas.com/?p=3127#comment-3005</guid>
		<description>Mark, all the best with your business. I hope you really succeed. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I don&#039;t know what backwards means. In business and life its 90% trial and error. We adjust, businesses adjust. Case in point is Yahoo that now owns Flickr. The ad model is no longer working for them, they must find other sources for revenue. Nothing is cast in stone and people do change their habits. In the end we all are interested in reward flawing back to the creators. Change is possible.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark, all the best with your business. I hope you really succeed. </p>
<p>I don&#39;t know what backwards means. In business and life its 90% trial and error. We adjust, businesses adjust. Case in point is Yahoo that now owns Flickr. The ad model is no longer working for them, they must find other sources for revenue. Nothing is cast in stone and people do change their habits. In the end we all are interested in reward flawing back to the creators. Change is possible.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Essel</title>
		<link>http://benatlas.com/2009/07/free-for-all-permission-sharing/#comment-3004</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Essel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 15:06:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://benatlas.com/?p=3127#comment-3004</guid>
		<description>An interesting approach to ownership of web content, but I believe it&#039;s too late to go backwards. The best thing you can do is understand how the dynamics have forced free to move forward. What can we do to best reward those who create great content? &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I&#039;m a big fan of freemium, and I&#039;m trying to build that model into my blog as well as a software project I&#039;m working on. Rewarding folks who generate great content monetarily is as natural as paying an artist for their work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An interesting approach to ownership of web content, but I believe it&#39;s too late to go backwards. The best thing you can do is understand how the dynamics have forced free to move forward. What can we do to best reward those who create great content? </p>
<p>I&#39;m a big fan of freemium, and I&#39;m trying to build that model into my blog as well as a software project I&#39;m working on. Rewarding folks who generate great content monetarily is as natural as paying an artist for their work.</p>
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		<title>By: fredwilson</title>
		<link>http://benatlas.com/2009/07/free-for-all-permission-sharing/#comment-3002</link>
		<dc:creator>fredwilson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 13:27:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://benatlas.com/?p=3127#comment-3002</guid>
		<description>That is the freemium model you are articulating and I totally agree. I suggested to flickr back before they were bought by yahoo! That they should built an iStockPhoto competitor. It would have been the most natural monetization move of them all. But you still gotta start with free to earn the right to get paid</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That is the freemium model you are articulating and I totally agree. I suggested to flickr back before they were bought by yahoo! That they should built an iStockPhoto competitor. It would have been the most natural monetization move of them all. But you still gotta start with free to earn the right to get paid</p>
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		<title>By: Ben Atlas</title>
		<link>http://benatlas.com/2009/07/free-for-all-permission-sharing/#comment-2998</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Atlas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 14:44:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://benatlas.com/?p=3127#comment-2998</guid>
		<description>Guy, thank you for reminding me about the stockphoto, etc. I would be curious to see what is Spindle. But of course there are options, this is like Google talking to the Department of Justice – “Yes there are other search options available. Check that!” But we all know that for all intents and purposes there is one game in town. What I am trying to say is that a change in culture, a change in the mind set is required.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Guy, thank you for reminding me about the stockphoto, etc. I would be curious to see what is Spindle. But of course there are options, this is like Google talking to the Department of Justice – “Yes there are other search options available. Check that!” But we all know that for all intents and purposes there is one game in town. What I am trying to say is that a change in culture, a change in the mind set is required.</p>
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